20.08.2014 15:44
[#121]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@zmiennik, post #1
Tymczasem na EAB...
Oraz planowanie przejścia na QEMU ze względu na problemy z kompatybilnością PearPC...
Originally Posted by themamboman na eab.abime.net:
Got my emulation updated to 4.1 update 6. Now, just waiting for networking to work in OS4.1 so I can use AmiUpdate to get all the way to current.
Oraz planowanie przejścia na QEMU ze względu na problemy z kompatybilnością PearPC...
20.08.2014 17:03
[#124]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@amizet, post #123
Beta 13
Zmiany
- Fixed vhd hardfiles. (b12)
- Emulated strange OCS/ECS feature similar to "SWIV scoreboard" feature (plane color > 16 becomes 16 when PF2PRI is set to invalid value). It gets more interesting if mode is dual playfield and PF2P2 is invalid: odd planes become transparent and it still hides even planes behind it if PF2PRI is set! (Running Man / Scoopex)
- A2065 buffer ram is now directly accessible, if someone wants to do some weird stuff with it (xlate and check memory functions supported)
- ROM scanner result window redesigned, all expansions that need rom images added.
- Fixed CHD CD crash when sector size conversion was required.
Zmiany
- Fixed vhd hardfiles. (b12)
- Emulated strange OCS/ECS feature similar to "SWIV scoreboard" feature (plane color > 16 becomes 16 when PF2PRI is set to invalid value). It gets more interesting if mode is dual playfield and PF2P2 is invalid: odd planes become transparent and it still hides even planes behind it if PF2PRI is set! (Running Man / Scoopex)
- A2065 buffer ram is now directly accessible, if someone wants to do some weird stuff with it (xlate and check memory functions supported)
- ROM scanner result window redesigned, all expansions that need rom images added.
- Fixed CHD CD crash when sector size conversion was required.
21.08.2014 01:30
[#125]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
Może pora już skończyć p...... ekhm, gadanie głupot?
===
EDIT: Z uwagi na mnogość postów oftopowych wątek "rdzeniowy", "prądowy" i "zakupowy" zostały przerzucone do jednego: "porozmawiajmy o pecetach", w Hyde Parku.
recedent
Ostatnia aktualizacja: 21.08.2014 16:02:32 przez recedent
===
EDIT: Z uwagi na mnogość postów oftopowych wątek "rdzeniowy", "prądowy" i "zakupowy" zostały przerzucone do jednego: "porozmawiajmy o pecetach", w Hyde Parku.
recedent
Ostatnia aktualizacja: 21.08.2014 16:02:32 przez recedent
21.08.2014 08:24
[#126]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@amizet, post #115
Mam może takie trochę nie mądrę pytanie, ale czy istnieje taka możliwość aby uruchomić WinUAE na Amidze. Bo w sumie WHDLoad działa jak taki trochę emulator.
jeśli już to nie WinUAE tylko poprostu UAE tudzież bardziej konkretnie port np. E-UAE bo WinUAE jest na Windows czyli PC z procesorem X86 i systemem zgodnym z Windows 32bit
portu UAE na prawdziwą Amigę czyli procesor 68K i system 1,x - 3.x nie ma bo nie ma sensu aby taki powstał bo wydajność najwydajniejszego procesora 68K jest na poziomie Pentium 80MHz czyli zbyt mała aby emulować Amigę. O ile procesor można by emulować dość konkretnie bo w końcu wystarczyłoby zrobić JIT z 68K na 68K (choć i to nie zawsze jest tak oczywiste... np. DosBox emuluje X86 na X86 z JIT a jest dość powolnie i tak...) to już emulacja chipsetu jest zbyt wymagającym obliczeniowo zadaniem aby takie procesorki jak 68060 dały mu radę. WinUAE na Pentium 166MHz jak kiedyś odpalałem nie zbliżał się nawet do emulowania Amigi 500 z pełną prędkością, a co dopiero robić to na procesorze 2x wolniejszym...
oczywiście zapytasz za chwilę po co emulować chipset jak on jest dostępny... no właśnie, po co emulować Amigę w Amidze?
Dla kompatybilności oczywiście... Poza tym UAE to emulator cpu+chipsetu w jednym opakowaniu, te dwa elementy są ze sobą ściśle powiązane, nie można ich rozdzielić. Nie można sobie części funkcji przerzucić na chipset, bo o ile może (tutaj tylko teoretyzuję, zapewne jest to technicznie niewykonalne) byłoby wykonalne to wymagałoby napisania takiego emulatora całkowicie od nowa, UAE przerobić tak się zwyczajnie nie da.Z drugiej strony są karty turbo do Amigi z procesorem PowerPC na których można odpalić AmigaOS 4.1 Classic i w nim zapewne idzie odpalić E-UAE dla AOS 4.x czyli może nie WinUAE ale UAE da się uruchomić na prawdziwej Amidze
Jest też MorphOS w wersji 1.x działał na Amidze z kartą PowerPC, też jakaś tam opcja. Na mocnym PPC ze 300MHz być może można emulować Amigę 500 z pełną prędkością ale jak to jest dokładnie z wydajnością tego rozwiązania to nie wiem. Najlepiej aby użytkownicy AOS4.1 Classic i MOS 1.x się wypowiedzieli. Zapewne znajdzie się kilku na PPA, nie wyobrażam sobie aby było inaczej. Rozumie, ale gdy by powstało whdload z gui , gdzie mielibyśmy możliwość wyboru kickstartu z jakiego chcemy korzystać i wirtualne dyskietki, wtedy mieli byśmy takie Amigowe winuae.
Tak w uproszczeniu z winuae było by tylko zaczerpnięte, możliwość emulacji stacji dyskietek /czyli montowanie adf/ i wybór kickstartu, whdload dało by nam swój mini system operacyjny.
programowy emulator stacji dyskietek czy innej części chipsetu to wbrew pozorom trudne zadanie. Gdyby programy korzystały z wyprowadzonego dla nich przez system operacyjny API to nie ma problemu bo wystarczyłoby napisać inny sterownik. Jednak Amiga to nie PC i tutaj rzeczy robiło się zawsze bare to the metal
można kupić sprzętowy emulator stacji dysków, to najpewniejsze i najprostsze rozwiązanie...
21.08.2014 10:54
[#130]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@XoR, post #126
Najlepiej aby użytkownicy AOS4.1 Classic i MOS 1.x się wypowiedzieli.
Jest UAE PPC z JITem, ale karty PPC w Amigach klasycznych są za słabe. Podobnie zresztą jak Pentium1 200 MHz. Bez dźwięku można spróbować ale nie będzie z tego radochy tylko ciekawostka. Myślę że dopiero komputery około 500-600 MHz (np. Pegasos1) pozwolą odpalić część gier z pełną prędkością lub co drugą klatkę. Tzn, używałem dawno temu WinUAE na Pentium3 500 MHz i nie było tak źle z grami na A500.
DODANE: Aha, oby za chwilę ktoś czasami nie robił wykładu o tym, że nie porównuje się PPC z x86, mimo że mają podobne MHz.
Ostatnia aktualizacja: 21.08.2014 11:05:50 przez Andrzej Drozd
21.08.2014 14:35
[#133]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@XoR, post #126
programowy emulator stacji dyskietek czy innej części chipsetu to wbrew pozorom trudne zadanie
Mam Gotka, czyli emuluje już flopa tak jak inni, ale jedyne co mi przychodzi na myśl to RAD przecież tam możemy zamontować adf, i używać jako stacji dyskietek po resecie... Ciężko mi myśleć w dzień lepiej mi się to robi w nocy, ale wydaje mi się że RAD jest trafnym spostrzeżeniem.
21.08.2014 19:08
[#135]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@amizet, post #133
Gdyby przerobić gotka na zipa,
Lub po prostu pamięć flash parallel, w postaci kartridżu lub kity do gotka.
Zalety: pojemność większa niż dyskietka szybszy transfer danych niż standardowa dyskietka komfort przenoszenia danych między PC a Amigą możliwość uruchamiania systemu z dyskietki ZIP (nie w każdym przypadku) duża liczba wariantów, przez co każdy znajdzie dla siebie odpowiedni
Źródło: http://www.ppa.pl/sprzet/wciaz-zip-ie.html
Copyright Polski Portal Amigowy
Lub po prostu pamięć flash parallel, w postaci kartridżu lub kity do gotka.
02.09.2014 15:52
[#137]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@waldiamiga, post #136
14 beta
QEMU PPC is still work in progress (by Frode and me), QEMU-side is not yet included. It run for the first time few days ago. It is not stable enough yet but hopefully soon...
- Autoconfig stopped immediately after first A590/A2091 board was configured.
- If VHD check/validation failed after VHD type was fetched (static vs dynamic), VHD was still accepted as valid, possibly crashing soon after. HDF type variable was not cleared, bug since VHD support was added.
- Automatically extend internal SCSI emulation buffer size if larger than current buffer size transfer is requested.
- If 68060 and "Unimplemented CPU emu" is ticked: 68060 unimplemented instructions that are completely unimplemented (CHK2/CMP2/CAS2/MOVEP) still triggered illegal instruction exceptions.
- 68000/010 configuration with 32-bit address space is now allowed.
- Blizzard 2060 ROM loading special case handling didn't work. (Has odd/even parts, others don't)
- Redesigned GUI SCSI expansion ROM selection, easier to add new boards in future.
- Fastlane Z3 SCSI board emulation implemented, another FAS216 based SCSI controller. z3scsi.device from phase5.a1k.org in rom scanner, but it would be nicer to have full dump. SCSI part only, memory part ignored.
- Oktagon 2008 SCSI board emulated. This was interesting, it has "software DMA" (SCSI chip is told to do DMA transfer but "DMA controller" is IO space that CPU reads or writes), it also have 512 byte serial EEPROM used to store config (with only 15 bytes used). EEPROM data is internal, not saved to any file. 6.12 (last release?) boot ROM added to rom scanner. Autoconfig data is currently not confirmed. Support added only because it was quite different than most other SCSI controllers.
- TekMagic 2040/2060 board added. 1.0 tekscsi2.device ROM added to ROM scanner, both odd/even pair and merged rom supported. NOTE: tekscsi2.device has a bug that does not allow RDB filesystem loading. Fast RAM expansion is not supported, it seems TekMagic fast RAM can also start from 0x02000000, not the usual 0x08000000. tools/showconfig output needed.
- NCR53C710 SCRIPTS DMA wasn't correctly started when in manual start mode. (tekscsi2.device)
- Added support for non-MMU bus error caused by invalid memory accesses, including 68000/010/020 models which normally can't generate bus errors but perhaps some expansion hardware will need it in future.
- Screenshot with D3D shader filter + take screenshot before filtering ticked saved final D3D output, not original unfiltered buffer.
- "SCSI (auto)" now works with all SCSI boards. Selects first SCSI board that is enabled. (In same order as select menu lists SCSI controllers)
Some code restructuring:
- Autoconfig board handling rewritten yet again, removed lots of code duplication and moved most duplicated autoconfig logic from board specific files to common expansion.cpp.
- Autoconfig board ROM config handling reorganized, now it is much easier to add new Z2/Z3 boards.
- Replaced my hacky serial EEPROM emulation with better one from QEMU, made it generic (previously only used in CD32 emulation).
- Removed A590/A2091 and A4091 Expansion panel checkboxes, enable/disable is now ROM selection. (ROM selected = enabled, ROM selection empty = not enabled
QEMU PPC is still work in progress (by Frode and me), QEMU-side is not yet included. It run for the first time few days ago. It is not stable enough yet but hopefully soon...
- Autoconfig stopped immediately after first A590/A2091 board was configured.
- If VHD check/validation failed after VHD type was fetched (static vs dynamic), VHD was still accepted as valid, possibly crashing soon after. HDF type variable was not cleared, bug since VHD support was added.
- Automatically extend internal SCSI emulation buffer size if larger than current buffer size transfer is requested.
- If 68060 and "Unimplemented CPU emu" is ticked: 68060 unimplemented instructions that are completely unimplemented (CHK2/CMP2/CAS2/MOVEP) still triggered illegal instruction exceptions.
- 68000/010 configuration with 32-bit address space is now allowed.
- Blizzard 2060 ROM loading special case handling didn't work. (Has odd/even parts, others don't)
- Redesigned GUI SCSI expansion ROM selection, easier to add new boards in future.
- Fastlane Z3 SCSI board emulation implemented, another FAS216 based SCSI controller. z3scsi.device from phase5.a1k.org in rom scanner, but it would be nicer to have full dump. SCSI part only, memory part ignored.
- Oktagon 2008 SCSI board emulated. This was interesting, it has "software DMA" (SCSI chip is told to do DMA transfer but "DMA controller" is IO space that CPU reads or writes), it also have 512 byte serial EEPROM used to store config (with only 15 bytes used). EEPROM data is internal, not saved to any file. 6.12 (last release?) boot ROM added to rom scanner. Autoconfig data is currently not confirmed. Support added only because it was quite different than most other SCSI controllers.
- TekMagic 2040/2060 board added. 1.0 tekscsi2.device ROM added to ROM scanner, both odd/even pair and merged rom supported. NOTE: tekscsi2.device has a bug that does not allow RDB filesystem loading. Fast RAM expansion is not supported, it seems TekMagic fast RAM can also start from 0x02000000, not the usual 0x08000000. tools/showconfig output needed.
- NCR53C710 SCRIPTS DMA wasn't correctly started when in manual start mode. (tekscsi2.device)
- Added support for non-MMU bus error caused by invalid memory accesses, including 68000/010/020 models which normally can't generate bus errors but perhaps some expansion hardware will need it in future.
- Screenshot with D3D shader filter + take screenshot before filtering ticked saved final D3D output, not original unfiltered buffer.
- "SCSI (auto)" now works with all SCSI boards. Selects first SCSI board that is enabled. (In same order as select menu lists SCSI controllers)
Some code restructuring:
- Autoconfig board handling rewritten yet again, removed lots of code duplication and moved most duplicated autoconfig logic from board specific files to common expansion.cpp.
- Autoconfig board ROM config handling reorganized, now it is much easier to add new Z2/Z3 boards.
- Replaced my hacky serial EEPROM emulation with better one from QEMU, made it generic (previously only used in CD32 emulation).
- Removed A590/A2091 and A4091 Expansion panel checkboxes, enable/disable is now ROM selection. (ROM selected = enabled, ROM selection empty = not enabled
06.09.2014 02:31
[#143]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@waldiamiga, post #141
Qemu z JIT
No, to wtedy będzie można po ludzku używać AOS4, tak jak na klasykach z PPC.
Dopiero wtedy przerzucę AOS4 z klasyka do WinUAE i przetestuję. Bo sam osobiście nie mam ochoty testować teraz AOS4 z prędkością taką jak Win3.1 na PC-Tasku. To jest może dobre dla tych którzy chcieliby sobie sprawdzić w ogóle jak wygląda AOS4, ale nie dla mnie, bo mam go na codzień w rozsądnej prędkości.
08.09.2014 20:12
[#144]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@waldiamiga, post #141
Status report:
Inter-thread messaging bottle-neck is now mostly gone.
cybppc.device (CSPPC built-in SCSI) works under OS4
Media Toolbox works.
Installing works.
Installing still takes forever (about 1 hour). See below. (But as I mentioned previously, boot image fade is now really fast)
Need to be fixed before public version:
All timers seem to run really fast (20x+), key repeat is instant, floppy clicks really fast. Probably (and hopefully) explains remaining performance problems. (It is possible huge number of timer interrupts takes most of remaining CPU time..)
QEMU seems to have multiple timer emulation modes but they are all quite difficult to understand..
"Unfortunately" PPC CPU has built-in counter + interrupt when it underflows, count rate is bus clock / 4, apparently this counter is used for OS4 timer.device. Possibly detection of bus clock is also wrong.
Inter-thread messaging bottle-neck is now mostly gone.
cybppc.device (CSPPC built-in SCSI) works under OS4
Media Toolbox works.
Installing works.
Installing still takes forever (about 1 hour). See below. (But as I mentioned previously, boot image fade is now really fast)
Need to be fixed before public version:
All timers seem to run really fast (20x+), key repeat is instant, floppy clicks really fast. Probably (and hopefully) explains remaining performance problems. (It is possible huge number of timer interrupts takes most of remaining CPU time..)
QEMU seems to have multiple timer emulation modes but they are all quite difficult to understand..
"Unfortunately" PPC CPU has built-in counter + interrupt when it underflows, count rate is bus clock / 4, apparently this counter is used for OS4 timer.device. Possibly detection of bus clock is also wrong.
10.09.2014 20:30
[#145]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@waldiamiga, post #144
Beta 15
- "ROM disabled" A2091/A590 ROM option was not visible (b14)
- Blizzard board ROM code was ignored (b14)
- Log window was opened when PPC CPU started (b14)
- Dragging adf file over window mode bottom bar HD led didn't mount it as a harddrive.
- Mounting adf as a harddrive uses adf's real volume name instead of host-side file name.
- Added support for sub memory banks, can divide normal 64k UAE memory bank in to smaller sub memory banks. Mainly needed to properly map PPC CyberStorm MK3/PPC SCSI IO and SCRIPTS RAM for QEMU PPC.
- SCSI CD emulation via NCR SCSI (53C94/FAS216 or NCR53C710+) chip didn't flash CD led.
- Added hack that prevents Picasso IV switching temporarily to RTG mode immediately after reset. (Picasso IV does not use simple signal passthrough like other cards)
- Switch to/from hardware RTG mode only after mode has been stable at least 0.5 seconds.
- Show CD insert/eject messages in new status bar message area. (Should it show real volume name instead of file name?)
- Quickstart CD eject button was always disabled.
- Status bar NVRAM led also shows accelerator board flash write accesses. Includes also writes that only enable chip ID read mode.
- PPC IO access completely rewritten, most IO areas are now directly accessible and only special regions (custom chipset and CIA require locking. Very slow IO message passing system is completely gone.
- QEMU PPC core support. Read separate notes!
QEMU PPC instructions and information: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=975129 - See more at: http://www.indieretronews.com/2014/09/winuae-290-beta-15-amiga-qemu-ppc-core.html#sthash.UpMh6G0K.dpuf
Ostatnia aktualizacja: 10.09.2014 20:31:45 przez waldiamiga
- "ROM disabled" A2091/A590 ROM option was not visible (b14)
- Blizzard board ROM code was ignored (b14)
- Log window was opened when PPC CPU started (b14)
- Dragging adf file over window mode bottom bar HD led didn't mount it as a harddrive.
- Mounting adf as a harddrive uses adf's real volume name instead of host-side file name.
- Added support for sub memory banks, can divide normal 64k UAE memory bank in to smaller sub memory banks. Mainly needed to properly map PPC CyberStorm MK3/PPC SCSI IO and SCRIPTS RAM for QEMU PPC.
- SCSI CD emulation via NCR SCSI (53C94/FAS216 or NCR53C710+) chip didn't flash CD led.
- Added hack that prevents Picasso IV switching temporarily to RTG mode immediately after reset. (Picasso IV does not use simple signal passthrough like other cards)
- Switch to/from hardware RTG mode only after mode has been stable at least 0.5 seconds.
- Show CD insert/eject messages in new status bar message area. (Should it show real volume name instead of file name?)
- Quickstart CD eject button was always disabled.
- Status bar NVRAM led also shows accelerator board flash write accesses. Includes also writes that only enable chip ID read mode.
- PPC IO access completely rewritten, most IO areas are now directly accessible and only special regions (custom chipset and CIA require locking. Very slow IO message passing system is completely gone.
- QEMU PPC core support. Read separate notes!
QEMU PPC instructions and information: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=975129 - See more at: http://www.indieretronews.com/2014/09/winuae-290-beta-15-amiga-qemu-ppc-core.html#sthash.UpMh6G0K.dpuf
Ostatnia aktualizacja: 10.09.2014 20:31:45 przez waldiamiga
13.09.2014 21:07
[#146]
Re: WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 9 - obsługa PPC
@waldiamiga, post #145
Beta 16:
- GUI (and log) showed wrong size for very large drives (>1T). Visual problem only.
- Fixed F12/pause hang when PPC was active.
- Fixed uaegfx RTG in Z2 mode memory mapping (b14)
- 68040 MMU MOVE16 fault size was wrong. (Cache line, not long)
- 68060 MMU read-modify-write fault had inverted read/write status.
- QEMU PPC vs UAE side memory banks are now dynamically mapped.
- PPC CPU HID1 set to more correct value, detected CPU clock is not same as bus clock anymore.
- QEMU TCG (JIT) buffer was too small, real world PPC programs run now much faster.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=975726&postcount=638
- GUI (and log) showed wrong size for very large drives (>1T). Visual problem only.
- Fixed F12/pause hang when PPC was active.
- Fixed uaegfx RTG in Z2 mode memory mapping (b14)
- 68040 MMU MOVE16 fault size was wrong. (Cache line, not long)
- 68060 MMU read-modify-write fault had inverted read/write status.
- QEMU PPC vs UAE side memory banks are now dynamically mapped.
- PPC CPU HID1 set to more correct value, detected CPU clock is not same as bus clock anymore.
- QEMU TCG (JIT) buffer was too small, real world PPC programs run now much faster.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=975726&postcount=638
